I didn't know which forum topic this would of came under so i put it under this one...

anywho... i want your views on Leon Jay and small circle jujitsu (the finger lock one)

i like to tease my mates who go to small circle (by the way i don't mention the jujitsu bit of it) because their parents have paid soo much for it and they still can only try to bend back my fingers.

Anywho... i have heard alot of negative things about Leon Jay from my karate couch, my ninjitsu coach and internet forums.

Now tell me something i don't know (your opinion)
Thanks
Dave

I say go see for yourself and then form your own opinion, but like anything else, one seminar, event, or exposure to something new will not be a good enough indicator if it is of any worth.

yea, i get where you are coming from. My view is firmly made up. Even though i didn't train with him for very long, it was because i couldn't be bothered with him any more.

Has this guy got a website or any video's?

My Sensei does finger work using Aikido and it's very effective but you need to skill and experiance to do it properly.

I'm interested to see what this guy does...

Just Google Leon Jay and his site will come up. Or check youtube like for most things nowadays

yea there are videos on youtube where people have used the comments tool to have arguements

never heard of the guy, but finger locks can be very effective if you know when to apply them.

its not just finger locks, he also uses points, he dosen't call them pressure points he gives them names like , water, fire, air, metal and so on

Well, actually if you follow the Chinese theory on pressure points each one is tied to one of the major meridians that govern chi flow in the body. Each of these meridians is also associated with both an organ and an element. That doesn't mean he is referring to them correctly necessarily, but it is possible to reference pressure points both through Western and Eastern anatomy.

For example, the point known is Eastern as Lung 1 is called Brachial Plexus Tie-In in Western. It is the spot where the Brachial Plexus nerve cluster ties-in to the shoulder joint at the end of the Pectoralis Major (can't remember whether this is the origin or insertion of this muscle). I can't remember for sure, but I think the Lung meridian is associated with Metal.

If you are interested in this kind of thing there is a really good book by Marc Tedeschi that I would recommend. It talks about points both from Eastern and Western standpoints. Incidentally, the fact that we can find references to certain points in both Eastern and Western anatomy just goes on to prove the validity of their uses. The book is called Essential Anatomy for Healing and the Martial Arts. Here is a link http://www.marctedeschi.com/books/eainfo.aspx.

sounds interesting, i know that some points he teaches is definitely correct but i do question some of the stuff he teaches, i mean it is hard to explain because i don't know it all,

but someone told me that it will only work on someone who believes it works, so when my friends try it on me it don't work but when they do it on each other and the coach, it does because they believe it.

what do you think of that?

I take it this is a son or relative of Wally Jay?

Or am I just showing my age.

Mule - If you are showing your age, then you aren't the only one.

Redsnow - I don't believe that whatsoever. I do know that people don't respond the same to pressure points. Some people feel them, some only feel them a little, and some don't feel them at all. I totally believe that they don't work on you, but I don't think it has anything to do with what you believe versus your comrades. It is most likely that you just are what is known as a "non-responder". That just means due to a combination of things in your anatomy, some or all pressure points don't work on you. I've met a couple people like this, but there are many points that actually work on about 80% (or better) of the population. It is also possible that Mr Jay doesn't maybe isn't really good enough to make many of them work. I really don't know since I've never met him. This is kind of one of those things that you have to experience to know whether someone can do it or not.