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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick (1 viewing) (1) Guest
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TOPIC: RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick
#201
Matthew Lloyd (User)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
reading this article, I am drawn to a couple of errors, which nearly everyone falls into the trap of. The dynamic stretching method talked about is actually ballistic stretching. Swinging your leg up to as far as it goes, is a pretty much guaranteed method of pulling your muscles. It will also strain your joints.
Dynamic stretching involves lifting (as opposed to swinging, and in practice it is a big difference) your limb to it's maximum stretch, and not beyond it. So for example a side kick stretch, hold onto something in space as suggested, then lift your leg up at 45 degrees behind you (side kick position) and then lower back down to the original position. RESET the position, and then start again. The key is not to get into this pendulum swinging motion.
Also, isometric stretches are different to those detailed here. My memory is failing but i believe: The stretches mentioned (get into position and then contract muscles) are Proprioceptive Neuromuscular Facilitation or PNF stretches (the only thing I ever remembered in PE)! Isometric stretches use your bodies weight to get the stretch position (ie sitting down into the splits, your body weight pushes your legs out).
Now in one session, some recommend dynamic stretches for the warm up, and then static stretching for the cool down.
For a true expert opinion on this, visit www.stadion.com, Thomas Kurz explains this a lot better and in much more depth than me.
 
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#209
PeteMills (Admin)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
Which article is it Matt? I will be interested in reading it.

What is the URL?
 
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#214
Beedham (User)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
 
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#218
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
Ok ive had a good read of this article by our deputy editor Lesley Jackson, and to be honest Matt im not sure (although I always welcome debate) with some of your points.

I think first off Lesley is very cautious to explain the pitfalls of 'jumping straight into any kind of stretching' both in hurting yourself and things around you.

In terms of dynamic stretching I would agree with Lesleys perscription here. It is clearly explained that a warm is necessary in order to complete dynamic stretching.

Also, I agree with her perscription of how to perform an isometric stretch and again Lesley is quick to ensure that the reader proceeds with caution when performing the stretch.

I will be interested in reading your response Matt.
 
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#219
Matthew Lloyd (User)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch5.html http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch33.html (point 7)

This is a cut down version from his book, but summarises fairly nicely. The crucial point is that you shouldn't swing your leg, it is lifted. Swinging is uncontrolled.
Obviously the points about a safe environment are valid, but it is the confusion between dynamic and ballistic stretching which I believe has demonised this as a proper stretching method.


As I finished writing that, I found this, which summarises it all in one page pretty succinctly. http://www.ifafitness.com/stretch/stretch4.htm
This also explains the differences between isometric, static and PNF stretching.
Matt

 
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#220
Lesley Jackson (Moderator)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
Thank you for your comments Matthew but I'm with Pete on this one. When I wrote the article back home in the Fens, I was still training under a 5th Dan with 25 years experience and a 3rd Dan, who is a British team member. Regarding the stretching and terminology, I've taken what they've taught me and recounted this in the article, using the terminology they used. We did these exercises regularly in class (and still do in my new schools) and we always have a thorough warm-up first. I trust these people implicitly and never once have I experienced any adverse effects from their training. They simply wouldn't put me at risk.
 
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#221
Matthew Lloyd (User)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
The terminology "swing the outside leg up and back as far as it will go"
is more akin to
-"stretching, or "warming up", by bouncing into (or out of) a stretched position" (textbook definition of ballistic stretching"
than
-"Dynamic stretching consists of controlled leg and arm swings that take you (gently!) to the limits of your range of motion"

Absolutely no disrespect intended to people, however in most organisations no qualifications in sports science are required to gain a black belt dan. I know this from my own experience, where I have only developed my knowledge in this area through education. Secondly, a technique or stretch used for a long time is not necessarily correct. Case to note, the "hurdlers" stretch. Used for years as an effective stretch, it was banned in the mid to late 90's as an unsafe stretch that was easily replaced with alternatives less damaging to the knee.

Few martial artists are expert sports physicians. Very few physicians practice or even know much about the martial arts. Without wanting to sound like Mr Kurz's new best friend, use the opportunity of having someone who is both, who has been extensively published (including being a TaeKwon-Do Times columnist if you want extra credibility) and read what he has to say.

I have done ballistic stretching, and I find it hurts my knees. I do dynamic stretching after the warm up in every one of my classes, and I can kick at full height without a warm up now, a fact i attribute to this.
 
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#252
PeteMills (Admin)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
So your still not happy Mr LLOYD
 
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#253
Beedham (User)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
Matthew Lloyd wrote:
The terminology "swing the outside leg up and back as far as it will go"
is more akin to
-"stretching, or "warming up", by bouncing into (or out of) a stretched position" (textbook definition of ballistic stretching"
than
-"Dynamic stretching consists of controlled leg and arm swings that take you (gently!) to the limits of your range of motion"

Absolutely no disrespect intended to people, however in most organisations no qualifications in sports science are required to gain a black belt dan. I know this from my own experience, where I have only developed my knowledge in this area through education. Secondly, a technique or stretch used for a long time is not necessarily correct. Case to note, the "hurdlers" stretch. Used for years as an effective stretch, it was banned in the mid to late 90's as an unsafe stretch that was easily replaced with alternatives less damaging to the knee.

Few martial artists are expert sports physicians. Very few physicians practice or even know much about the martial arts. Without wanting to sound like Mr Kurz's new best friend, use the opportunity of having someone who is both, who has been extensively published (including being a TaeKwon-Do Times columnist if you want extra credibility) and read what he has to say.

I have done ballistic stretching, and I find it hurts my knees. I do dynamic stretching after the warm up in every one of my classes, and I can kick at full height without a warm up now, a fact i attribute to this.


theres no pleasing some folk ey pete?
 
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#254
Matthew Lloyd (User)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
Well, no. Not until someone proves me to be wrong? Or I'm quite willing to demonstrate what I mean, will MartialEdge man up and come to my club and film me showing what I argue here.
 
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#255
Matthew Lloyd (User)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
What I mean is that someone attempts to prove me wrong, instead of using the argument "I was told to do it this way so it must be right"
 
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#256
Beedham (User)
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RE: Developing A TaeKwonDo kick 1 Year, 1 Month ago  
Matthew Lloyd wrote:
Well, no. Not until someone proves me to be wrong? Or I'm quite willing to demonstrate what I mean, will MartialEdge man up and come to my club and film me showing what I argue here.

touché...
 
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