Shoes, Concrete, Mates No mates, Police, multiple assailants, no referee.....Need I go on?

You just need to look in the news.



Mule im not going for a black and white list of what you can and cannot use - what I am saying though is that if you an MMA fighter and you have clearly won a bout - why continue to stamp on someones head. Whats the difference between that and a no holds barred street fight? Whats more, what kind of message is that sending out to the youths of today watching this?

Sometimes I think it is not a lack of discipline that gets people injured but rather your body completely taking over and letting adrenaline get the better of you. If someone has just kicked you full on in the face and knocked you a bit senseless then you get a second wind, batter them with punches and then stamp on them before you realize they have gone down, some of it could be just associated with a survival response rather than a deliberate action or lack of discipline. MMA is a sport that will generally get you in more of these situations than other combat based sports so its natural that people may accidentally get carried away.

Then you do get the occasional bad egg that is a complete sociopath that give the entire industry with a kind of "I AM GOING TO RIP THIS GUYS HEAD OFF!!!!" attitude before they even enter the ring.

What I am trying to say is that accidents happen, especially in MMA which when you look at it physiologically, is no ones fault. But as in any other competitive situation (including non MA competitions), there are always psychos.

Sometimes I think it is not a lack of discipline that gets people injured but rather your body completely taking over and letting adrenaline get the better of you.

Yep I can agree with that

Then you do get the occasional bad egg that is a complete sociopath that give the entire industry with a kind of "I AM GOING TO RIP THIS GUYS HEAD OFF!!!!" attitude before they even enter the ring.

True

What I am trying to say is that accidents happen, especially in MMA which when you look at it physiologically, is no ones fault. But as in any other competitive situation (including non MA competitions), there are always psychos.


yeah I agree with that..


But Tony,

Wouldnt you say that its still setting a bad example? What kind of punishmemt do these guys get for that? And whether your taking the attitude that emotions are getting the better of you does it still not demonstrate a lack of discipline?

Spotted this article:



No art in mixed martial arts

Other combat sports like boxing and tae kwon do have dignity, tradition, and honour, but the unadulterated violence of MMA has no cultural value at all


Derek Bates, Sports Writer



The world of sports is welcoming a vicious newcomer to the mainstream: mixed martial arts (MMA). This new combat sport has taken all the rules, honour, and tradition out of the classic combat sports and produced a ruthless bloodbath to poison viewers’ minds.

Even worse, the rise of MMA has coincided with the decline of a great and ancient sport: the sweet science of boxing. Where are the good old days when two people would clobber each other using just their fists while wearing padded gloves? Boxing is a fantastic sport because it takes physical endurance and strategy to defeat your opponent, not just a strong arm. Boxers spend months training their mind and bodies to prepare for a single fight, and, ignoring some notable exceptions, it’s a sport steeped in tradition and excellence.
MMA, on the other hand, is a no-holds-barred, virtually rule-free environment in which two men or two women pummel each other using the method of their choice.

Now, I personally don’t see the appeal in watching two half-naked men wrestle for three five-minute sets, but this “sport” has set records in pay-per-view sales and sky-rocketed to one of the most watched events on TV.

This bastardization of more traditional martial arts is a dangerous trend. When I took tae kwon do, the worst thing I did to someone was bow at him. Glorifying and rewarding the best way to make someone else bleed or faint is a complete departure from what martial arts are all about—discipline, honour, and respect.

Often, popular sports are reflective of the cultures that foster them. This is another reason it concerns me that MMA has gained such prominence in our culture. Many sports, including football and hockey, involve an element of violence. However, mixed martial arts crosses the line from sport into brutality. Sports today put too much emphasis on violence in general, and I just don’t see the point.

You aren’t going hear someone 20 years down the road say, “Remember that time when (insert tough guy’s name here) put a 30-stitch cut on the chin of (insert unfortunate victim’s name here) back in ’08? That’s was a great match!” Rather, we’ll likely still be reminiscing about the Patriots’ perfect season, Kobe’s 81 points in 2006, and the Stanley Cup the Flames won in ’08. Okay, maybe the latter is only wishful thinking, but you get the picture.

Violence now holds a place near and dear to the North American heart, and the ramifications of this trend are clear. As athletes get bigger, stronger and faster, these assets will be used to hurt rather than to compete against other athletes.

While it is unlikely that sports like boxing will completely die out, I cringe at the rise of such lowly pursuits as MMA into the mainstream of North American athletics. The departure from respect and honor that are such integral part of sport—and traditional martial arts in particular—may mean a major shift in the sports of the future.

PeteMills wrote:
Shoes, Concrete, Mates No mates, Police, multiple assailants, no referee.....Need I go on?

You just need to look in the news.



Mule im not going for a black and white list of what you can and cannot use - what I am saying though is that if you an MMA fighter and you have clearly won a bout - why continue to stamp on someones head. Whats the difference between that and a no holds barred street fight?One is deemed legal, the other is not.



Whats more, what kind of message is that sending out to the youths of today watching this?
The demographic I'm concerned about don't watch much TV, they're already out late at night causing bother.
The demographic watching this kind of thing are typically 18-35.
Maybe the message is a good one in some ways?
Look how dangerous violence can be....be good, stay safe.

I think we sometimes/lol all the time, take the importance of MA too seriously.

No art in mixed martial arts

Other combat sports like boxing and tae kwon do have dignity, tradition, and honour, but the unadulterated violence of MMA has no cultural value at all


Derek Bates, Sports Writer




MMA, on the other hand, is a no-holds-barred, virtually rule-free environment in which two men or two women pummel each other using the method of their choice.

Now, I personally don’t see the appeal in watching two half-naked men wrestle for three five-minute sets, but this “sport” has set records in pay-per-view sales and sky-rocketed to one of the most watched events on TV.

This bastardization of more traditional martial arts is a dangerous trend. When I took tae kwon do, the worst thing I did to someone was bow at him. Glorifying and rewarding the best way to make someone else bleed or faint is a complete departure from what martial arts are all about—discipline, honour, and respect.








[/quote]


WOW,just wow! That's exactly the kind of attitude that makes me angry. It's also complete and utter bs! There are rules in mma that are strictly adhered to, I'm not sure what this guy has been watching but it's not the same fights i have been watching. I'm not going to comment any more on that awful article as it really isn't worthy of comment.

Su Lin wrote:



WOW,just wow! That's exactly the kind of attitude that makes me angry. It's also complete and utter bs! There are rules in mma that are strictly adhered to, I'm not sure what this guy has been watching but it's not the same fights i have been watching. I'm not going to comment any more on that awful article as it really isn't worthy of comment.
Agreed.
I've seen that article discussed before.
It's ignorant! (no offence Pete)

mule wrote:
Su Lin wrote:
Grrr tried to edit my post and it all went pear shaped!

Anyway,in a nutshell: try not to jump on the "oooh mma is all thugs and dangerous bandwagon people. There are bad fights and strikes in all types of fighting,not just mma. The majority of fighters are highly disciplined and the rule sets generally mean that kind of thing doesn't happen often at all. Yes anyone doing anything illegally should be dealt with but please try not to get all "see, this is why I don't like mma ..." etc on it because of an isolated incident.
Personally, I'm not.

It's in the interests of the sport and all MA that this kind of thing is exposed and discussed though.
If we don't self-regulate, then the party will get pooped on for everybody.

I wasn't aiming that at you Mule, and I agree with your comment. Every ma should be self regulating, and from the majority of fights I see,mma is good at doing it. I was watching a pro women's fight at the weekend which was stopped as soon as it was apparent one of them just wasn't defending herself. I remember the last Amir Khan fight where the guy went down and Khan did something very dodgy indeed. It doesn't just happen in mma, this is my point.

Yes,when you combine all aspects of fighting such as striking and ground work in the arena that mma is set then yes it may look brutal ,but it's not necessarily any worse than muay thai say. I have seen some really brutal fights. Yeah it's a shame it does come across as big meatheads fighting sometimes but people need to look through that and look at the amazingly skilled and dedicated fighters out there who do play within the rules. Imo the numbers doing that will be greater than those who ignore the rules.

mule wrote:
Su Lin wrote:



WOW,just wow! That's exactly the kind of attitude that makes me angry. It's also complete and utter bs! There are rules in mma that are strictly adhered to, I'm not sure what this guy has been watching but it's not the same fights i have been watching. I'm not going to comment any more on that awful article as it really isn't worthy of comment.
Agreed.
I've seen that article discussed before.
It's ignorant! (no offence Pete)

Aye,ignorant is the word and I wouldn't say it's a good article to be using to defend a point of view Pete.

But Tony,

Wouldnt you say that its still setting a bad example? What kind of punishmemt do these guys get for that? And whether your taking the attitude that emotions are getting the better of you does it still not demonstrate a lack of discipline?

I do think it is a bad example to set but I also think it is more excusable than in other sports.

Lets take football for example. Football is a lot more popular than MMA. Its non contact and a huge percentage of British males (which are more likely to go out and start riots than MMA fans, generally speaking) are exposed to the occasional overpaid nutcase showing a lack of discipline and out of context nonsense than any MMA guy has ever shown.

Do you remember Eric Cantona doing a a jumping kick into the crowd because someone caused a horrific emotional injury to him by criticizing him http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CAkyv5OqHmI

Do you also remember our friend Zinidane Zidane http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zAjWi663kXc thinking its ok to head butt someone in a non contact sport.

When you are toe to toe with a guy you essentially want to beat into submission, you expect the occaisional accident/someone going a bit too far.

When an MMA fan walks down the street after watching his favorite MMA matches and gets carried away after someone starts a fight with him, its bad.

When a football fan walks down the street after watching the highlights and someone says something he doesn't agree with and head butts them out, it is inexcusable.

Role models that are fighters get respect by fighting and may occasionally mess up. Role models that don't fight and teach people that it is ok to throw your weight around are much bigger problems than any MMA head stomp ever has been IMO.

Good points, I agree!

Su Lin wrote:
Yeah it's a shame it does come across as big meatheads fighting sometimes but people need to look through that and look at the amazingly skilled and dedicated fighters out there who do play within the rules. Imo the numbers doing that will be greater than those who ignore the rules.
On balance.
In the clip being discussed, ther are plent of occasions where one fighter has scored a clean KO and stopped dead.
Those are the disciplined ones.
Those are the artists.
It's the ones who can't control themselves who have no business being there.
What goes around, comes around.

mule wrote:
Su Lin wrote:
Yeah it's a shame it does come across as big meatheads fighting sometimes but people need to look through that and look at the amazingly skilled and dedicated fighters out there who do play within the rules. Imo the numbers doing that will be greater than those who ignore the rules.
On balance.
In the clip being discussed, ther are plent of occasions where one fighter has scored a clean KO and stopped dead.
Those are the disciplined ones.
Those are the artists.
It's the ones who can't control themselves who have no business being there.
What goes around, comes around.

I agree with that too.As I said, I just havent seen many undisciplined mma fighters.