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TOPIC: Re:Martial Arts Cults
#4123
Jamie Clubb (User)
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Martial Arts Cults 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
This is a topic I put up on CCMA's Facebook forum. I thought it might be interest as a discussion point:

Are you part of or have you been a part of a martial arts cult? Below are the criteria set down by Michael Shermer regarding what generally constitutes a cult in his "Why People Believe Weird Things". I think they are sober guide for all CCMA students and prospective instructors:

Veneration of the Leader: Excessive glorification to the point of virtual sainthood or divinity.

Inerrancy of the Leader: Belief that he or she cannot be wrong.

Omniscience of the Leader: Acceptance of beliefs and pronouncements on virtually all subjects, from the philosophical to the trivial.

Persuasive Techniques: Methods used to recruit new followers and reinforce current beliefs.

Hidden Agendas: Potential recruits and the public are not given a full disclosure of the true nature of the group's beliefs and plans.

Deceit: Recruits and followers are not told everything about the leader and the group's inner circle, particularly flaws or potentially embarrassing events or circumstances.

Financial and/or Sexual Exploitation: Recruits and followers are persuaded to invest in the group, and the leader may develop sexual relations with one or more of the followers.

Absolute Truth: Belief that the leader and/or group has a method of discovering final knowledge on any number of subjects.

Absolute Morality: Belief that the leader and/or the group have developed a system of right and wrong thought and action applicable to members and nonmembers alike. Those who strictly follow the moral code may become and remain members, those who do not are dismissed or punished.

 
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#4124
mule (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
'Tescos'
Now there's a cult for you.
 
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As you travel to the mountain, there may be people ahead of you. You may pass some of these people on the way, and some of them may pass you. You are all going to the same place, so it is as well to be civil to each other on the journey!

Good luck on your journey, I hope that our paths cross, and we may travel together for a time!

If you touch my Llama, I WILL kill you!
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#4126
Lesley Jackson (Moderator)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
That's an interesting idea - to what extent does the discipline needed in a martial arts class spill over into cult-like behaviour?

When does the instructor go from being the expert and teacher to respect into an unquestionable being?

Anyone had any experience of this?
 
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#4128
dmccarthy (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
This is really interesting. It is sad when something that has such good to it is perverted into something bad. I know an instructor here in my town who I would call a 'Cult Leader'. The guy is very self-absorbed (more than me even lol). He has a throne in his office! I'm not kidding.

It is important for all of us to remember that we are human beings, so we are imperfect and fallible. This is even more important for anyone who is a role model or authoritative position to remember.
 
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strengthen the body, expand the mind, free the spirit

dragon punch kitteh pwns u!
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#4170
Jamie Clubb (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
A few links for your consideration:
http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue8/zanshin8.html http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/cults.htm http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/c/chung/ http://www.unixgods.org/~monika/Fun/MartialArts/Unarmed.html http://www.koryu.com/library/wmuromoto4.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5hYsMcJM68 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyV-06JONjw&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtEsSCe_Fas&feature=related

We are not alone in discussing this topic:
http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/675.html?1134690355 http://wmtkd.us/kalamazoo/BullShido.xml

Militant cults? http://www.atimes.com/se-asia/bg08ae01.html

Oh yes, and the classic example. Rev. Sun Myung Moon is the founder and head of the Unification Church, known collequially as "The Moonies". Moon is often known as one of the world's biggest cult leaders. http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/unificat.htm

He also heads the Martial Arts Federation for World Peace.

MARTIAL ARTS
Martial arts were originally created in ancient Asia to ensure stable and peaceful societies. Reviving this original purpose of martial arts, Reverend Moon is a major sponsor of martial arts programs and events. He recognizes martial arts as an especially important way to reach young people. Martial arts is a uniquely inspiring, enriching and exciting sport where young persons, and even gang members, can develop their physical abilities and at the same time learn principles that develop their character and leadership abilities.

Martial Arts Federation for World Peace
Founded in 1997, the Martial Arts Federation for World Peace promotes martial arts as a way to achieve individual mind/unity, to give young people a healthy to way to channel their youthful energy and learn ethical principles, and to promote world peace through international tournaments. Delegates from 70 nations, including Grand Masters and Masters from the main martial arts schools, attended the 1997 inauguration. The Federation is unique in that it encourages members to study and practice many styles of martial arts and promotes martial arts programs that unify the strong points of individual martial arts schools.


Moon's own words on his own martial arts style, Won Wha Do:

Our martial art is Won Wha Do, is circular, 360 degrees. I created Won Wha Do. Also I gave Chung Do Sul, before. In America people like Tae Kwon Do. I supported the people who brought it to America, but they didn’t connect it to me. Over 100,000 young people study martial arts. All the martial arts leaders are uniting, and the Christians opposed it. I knew what was coming in the future, in the worlds of religion, sports and art, and had to educate all humankind in a short time. I felt that we could change the world in three years. Now look at it, the Yakuza and Mafia are dominating these arenas of life. By 2010, the Mafia will dominate all distribution systems. Who will kick them out? That’s why we need martial arts. So we need to bring martial arts leaders to God’s side, but they don’t know what the purpose of martial arts is. So we need to re-organize them and bring them back to their original purpose.
 
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#9001
Jamie Clubb (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 1 Month, 1 Week ago  
Seeing the recent discussions on a martial arts instructor being convicted for having sexual relations with an under age student, the con-men masquarading as "chi masters" etc. I think this topic is worth bringing to the front again.
 
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#9014
Brit Sceptic (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 1 Month, 1 Week ago  
the way i see it anyone claiming to be a chi master and can use energy for dim mak no touch ko should absolutly be avoided as a kook!

any thoughts?

Den
 
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#9023
Ryusui_Ryu (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 1 Month, 1 Week ago  
I suppose we can look at these Cult like 'masters' as a prime example of power corrupts.

People start out with good intentions, but then something in the mind changes when they realise they have control over people. Power has corrupted many brilliant people in our world and turned them into some kind of sadistic self obsessed deity. They start to enjoy people bow to their will, and because some humans are seeking truth and purpose and also 'power' they follow these people.

I'm sure when these guys took up Martial Arts they probably worked hard and tried to learn skill, I suspect that when they started getting students through their own door, the feeling of having a handfull of students under you guidence and command really feeds the ego. This leads to abuse of power.

Even worse would be someone who watches some films, daydreams up some bizzare technique and then convinces people that it will work if they pay them money and train with them they will 'feel the power' and learn it for themselves.

Yellow bamboo is a good example of cult like MA. Christ knows where it came from but people actually believe in 'Chi power'

This clip I think was posted under the Chi/Ki science or spritual thread I started but worth another look I think...

And omg what the hell...Watch form about 20second onwards...

I think head slapping is an automatic response ... D'oh!

What can we do about this crap? how can we stop people following such ridiculous claims?
 
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Power of the mind is infinite, while brawn is limited...
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#9037
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 1 Month, 1 Week ago  
What can we do about this crap? how can we stop people following such ridiculous claims?

Ru thats something I have been wondering for a long time and the conclusion that keeps coming back is education.

Critical thinking skills should be taught to our children from an early age, both at home and in schools.

It is the only way I know of, because if not caught early enough people can go through life with no idea of how to think things through.

We are all irrational however a good grounding in critical thinking skills is I believe the first line of defence against con artists and pseudo science.

Regards,

Den.
 
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#9039
Brit Sceptic (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 1 Month, 1 Week ago  
One more thing, this s highly improbable I know but as for MA a watchdog such as the FSA has for finance, a watchdog that keeps tabs on all martial arts clubs, where wrong dong can be reported and an MA instructor can apply for a vetted licence from the watchdog to say they have certain credibility.

As I say this would be an umbrella organisation, maybe someone will do it and it has potential for success, if only to help reduce the amount of kooks out there.

Den.
 
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#9042
Taoquan (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 1 Month, 1 Week ago  
I have seen some clubs meet the criteria above.

I believe it is important to pay respect and honor to one's teacher. They are after all giving you a "gift" that you truly want (MA) they are giving you their time, their effort, their knowledge. Some people love what they do so much they want to do it for a "Living" so they charge for it. That is fine, you should get compensated for it and if you put forth the hours and gave your life for something it's fine.

However,
There is a lot of people that are exploiting these ideas and it disgusts me. True MAs (since it does go into the realm at times I will also add Spiritual Arts i.e. Meditation etc.) should...

ENHANCE YOUR POTENTIAL

NOT

REQUIRE YOU TO CHANGE IT (or your beliefs)

I think (unfortunately) this day and age people are looking too much outside themselves for "something". This day and age, people need to believe in more, which is fine, but as pointed out because of their desire to believe so deeply in something more, they forego critical thinking.

For example:

I was once one of those searching for Tao, God, Superpowers etc. I found Asian ideas and philosophy and believed to a great extent all the myths surrounding them. However, I got burned (not as bad as some people) believing too much and got taken advantage of.

However, I did not give up hope in my search, but became more critical. This is how I found my current teacher, who teaches MAs and Spiritual arts, but does not do it in any of the above mentioned ways of Cults.

He pushes us to test our own limits, does not force belief structures upon us (often working within our own belief structures) and teaches us to be critical of all things, MAs included. If we don't question, we don't learn. So even in our art, we will ask Why? Why do we do this move? Why do we believe this or that is effective? etc.

I have been down the path that I see above in the clips and I feel sorry for those that struggle there. They almost become too weak, willing to believe in anything and not learn for themselves. A true teacher should teach his/her students to be able to stand on their own two feet, physically, mentally and spiritually.
 
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"When perfection is not in the soul, everything which the soul does for itself and for others is imperfect." St Catherine of Siena
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#9052
Brit Sceptic (User)
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Re:Martial Arts Cults 1 Month, 1 Week ago  
Seems like you found a good instructor there m8, I believe Jamie's style of instruction follows a similar vein,

why cant more instructors be like that then?

Regards,

Den.
 
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