Hey all. I just thought I would throw something out there and see what people thoughts are.

I am a reasonably big guy by western standards. I am about 6ft and weigh about 85kg. I am pretty flexible due to my TKD training and pretty strong due to all around exercise and being a heavy type fighter. Training in Japan I am nothing short of massive. Half of the people I train with are about 20kg lighter than myself and as a result they are pretty damn speedy. They seem to work around the fact "If Tony gets even one hit in, I'm screwed" so they dodge past my punches or jump in and out with hits.

After training with these guys for what is approaching 2 years now I am getting to be able to use techniques they were using on me and find that I am getting a lot quicker without having to sacrifice any of my weight and power.

As a big frigging white guy training in a dojo full of much smaller Japanese guys I am training against my heavy body type learning light fighter style techniques and it seems to be working pretty damn well.

Does anyone else have any experiences with working against their body type. Be it a light fighter learning heavy techniques (see the crazy Thai guys practicing muey thai) or a heavy fighter working on light techniques (see me point sparring people half my size and twice my speed).

I have the opposite problem, Im 5ft 7inch and I weigh in at only 68KG.

compered to the blokes I train with at the dojo (mostly british tradesmen or students) im shorter and lighter, the style taijutsu sint really bias towards any particular build, but you just have to adapt the style to suit your preferences.

I once fought a blackbelt TKD guy, he was very heavy and built like a grappler he had a wicked side kick on him. But he made sure he learnt the sweeps and grapples that are present (I beilieve) in TKD. They just arent considered the main feature of the style so to speak, but he learnt them because he wanted to use his build to his advantage within the style.

I think it seems youve made a wise move, youve got your 'heavy hits' but your also learning the fast and light stuff as well, once youve 'mastered it all' then you can use the techniques that work for you. Im no expert but in my opinion a good martial artist can adapt the style.

Sweeps and Grapples

Ben give us some more info here. I train ITF taekwondo and there are no sweeps or grappling to my knowledge. Not disputing that you came across someone using these tactics id just be interested in knowing more about the context (i.e. venue, open freestyle competition etc)

Tony with regards your post I have some interesting thoughts. As you well know during my university days I was a natural lighweight and in my 'pomp' (when I had fighting fitness on tap ) I could mix it above my fighting weight until I got to the really big guys. I remember one time fighting a university competiton against a heavyweight kickboxer and I went toe to toe with him! (You can imagine the consequence of that - and it wasnt me winning) But you see in my youth I thought that you had to fight everyone at the same intensity and I didnt realise that I needed to use my head. These days I spend the first ten - fifteen seconds weighing up my opponent - and if hes a big guy I use my space and pick points when I and if I get the opportunity.

What I mainly refer to here is the concept of training against what your body is naturally adapted to. I am not naturally adapted to fighting a fully grown bear the same way that a bear cub is not naturally adapted to fighting a fully grown human).

I was wanting to know more about experiences people have gone through in training where their body type has been a disadvantage to them and they have overcome it.

I once saw a 100kg+ guy pull off a perfect jump reverse turning kick (somehow). Its the methods of training that interest me.

Tony Swain wrote:
Its the methods of training that interest me.

Do you mean physical or mental/ both? The reason I ask is, the style of tai chi I consider my 'main' style is technically something way out of my body's capabilities.

Wu ming347 wrote:
Tony Swain wrote:
Its the methods of training that interest me.

Do you mean physical or mental/ both? The reason I ask is, the style of tai chi I consider my 'main' style is technically something way out of my body's capabilities.

Ah, I didn't think of that. In my experience, tai chi is very mental and it doesn't matter what body type you are to practice it. I remember having a tai chi taster class once from someone that looked like he just finished a pint of John Smiths he balanced on his gut and came to class after winning a game of darts. that guy was excellent in his teaching and I still remember things he taught me in my single, one hour class.

What I was mainly aiming at in this thread however is working against a body type and techniques of how to overcome it. Like "how do heavy fighters learn to use speedy techniques" of "how do light fighters learn how to use powerful techniques."

Tony Swain wrote:
In my experience, tai chi is very mental and it doesn't matter what body type you are to practice it. I remember having a tai chi taster class once from someone that looked like he just finished a pint of John Smiths he balanced on his gut and came to class after winning a game of darts. that guy was excellent in his teaching and I still remember things he taught me in my single, one hour class.

Sounds excellent
Yeh, some forms of tai chi are more challenging physically than others, and different schools have different training methods. Some are really tough.

I'll watch this discussion with interest, cos I definitely need to learn about this!

PeteMills wrote:
Sweeps and Grapples

Ben give us some more info here. I train ITF taekwondo and there are no sweeps or grappling to my knowledge. Not disputing that you came across someone using these tactics id just be interested in knowing more about the context (i.e. venue, open freestyle competition etc)



I learnt a small amount of TKD from a very good instructor once, he not only taught us he kicks and strikes present in TKD but he demonstrated sweeping techniques, mostly steeping out into a horse stance and using it a base to sweep an opponenet over, he also fought fanasticly well on the ground, in particular he used the ankle lock and the rear naked choke.

I’m about 1.75 meters and 94kg and overall my body is build for power and distance and my mindset is aggressive and determined. Often my style of fighting relies on me grabbing and pounding my opponent and having so much happening that they can’t fight back (off balancing, striking etc). Technically on my feet I’m good and able to deal with a few of people at once. If I’m put on my back it’s normally by someone who is stronger and bigger than me. Because I’m taken clean out of my game I generally degenerate to struggling. I can’t bridge, apply locks or anything. That’s where my body hinders me. I can’t find the strength to fight against strength and it’s really annoying. Anyone got any ideas on how to train for that?

In my experiance with Aikido especialy, If your training with someone taller and heavier than you the weight and power differance can seem quite overwhelming. But I find myself at an advantage for 2 reasons...

1st reason is that my center is lower than their's which is advantageous for throws.

2nd reason is that you can bring people down to your level easier than bringing them up.. What I mean by this is an attack comes in (punch to the head) from a taller person. The energy from the force of their punch is coming down, basically gravity is already assisting you at this point. This makes it easier to bring them down.

By braking the balance of someone taller and controlling them is very effective as its harder for them to get their height back.

Of course there is a disadvantage of range, as some of these techniques must be done while entering and can be difficult if someone is bigger and stronger.

If someone is smaller I find it more challenging to recover my balance if its taken, but as I learn to go with the motion and feel the techniques, sometimes a well place ukemi (breakfall) can take them down with you and as you know its gonna happen can often end up in the advantage or rolling away ready to engage again from standing.

I remember one of my old TKD instructors trying to get me to spar like him. I'm significantly taller and heavier and it just didn't seem natural to spar the way he did.

I think that you have to sometimes accept that you will adapt to your body type.

That said, are smaller people naturally faster? I don't think so, I think that you work on speed and timing no matter your size.

I wish there were some readily available videos of TKD legend Tony Sewell in his prime. Below is what I could find from youtube, but this is 15 years after he retired from competition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVFhB8pCs8o

He was a definite heavyweight, but could do the most amazing kicks such as high section jump spin back kick and before he landed rechamber and do a second kick before landing. He could do it off either leg. I think there is a section on Clash of the Titans 10 where he does an amazing kicking demonstration with Pele Reid.

Pete, was the heavyweight kickboxer my pal Norbu perchance? He's lighter and faster these days which keeps me on my toes every sunday!

'Big' and 'small' are relative terms, unless you're the biggest guy in the world, there's always someone bigger than you and they are the ones likely to pick a fight with you...

So you always have to train like you're a small guy