Hi all,

I have joined this forum to talk to fellow martial artists and to spread the word of our new Martial Arts School Ryusui-Ryu.
Ryusui-Ryu means 'Like Flowing Water'
Ryusui-Ryu is a new school of martial arts founded in July 2006 by Sensei Dave Waters. Sensei Waters has derived the school after many years of study in different martial arts including karate, aikido, iaido, judo kyudo and wing chun. It is a subtle blend of traditional karate and aikido with contributions from other martial arts techniques amalgamated together to form one style. It is completely non-competitive with an emphasis on relaxed, flowing movements.

This art form is without a doubt full of real quality. Unlike some clubs that have reamined static in their Arts (which is fine for them) we have taken it to another level. The increased sensitivty and softness that our new system 'Kumi-Tai' has given us all, and continues to give us is amazing. It's what all people seek in our lifes, Harmony, sensitivity, Peace...
I have trained with other arts and been to other clubs and I must say that most now days have remained static, egotistical and robotic. I see some clubs reaching out to the next level and really helping our arts and our race to evolve with the idea's of soft harmonious movements.
Kumi-Tai: This is the core of the style and is the main arena where all of our techniques, taisabaki, strikes, holds, throws etc come together. At the beginner level it is performed at a slow pace allowing the student to experiment safely and learn how to deal with a variety of attacks. The emphasis is always on safety and learning, we often refer to this as 'play fighting'. As such we are not learning to fight but we are learning the skills of fighting.
Please feel free to check out the website www.ryusui-ryu.org and post any questions or just points of view!


I look forward to chatting and sharing with you all.
Peace..

Interesting.

So essentially are you saying that you have developed your own form of martial arts?

Ive had a good read of your post a couple of times and what I keep coming back to is that you have re-packaged Karate movements into slow movements?

Do you have any video footage you could share with users? Im sure everyone here would be most interested in seeing 'a subtle blend of Karate and Aikido'

Im also interested in your concept of 'play fighting' i.e. we are not learning to fight but learning the skills of fighting? Surely by taking this approach you are training students to 'think' they have skills to be able to take care of themselves but in actual fact they dont know 'how to' use them.


Look forward to your reply.

Thank you for taking the time to investigate Ryusui-ryu.

In response to your comment 'Surely by taking this approach you are training students to 'think' they have skills to be able to take care of themselves but in actual fact they don’t know 'how to' use them'

This is not the idea at all. Ryusui-ryu is not teaching people to kill others. It is not teaching people to fight in cage fights. However if the spectrum of practical techniques was 1-10 with 10 being cage fighting and 1 being non contact. You would find Ryusui_ryu at about 7. We teach a practical Martial Art which uses a random training system that’s Safe due to the nature of speed that a student trains at as they move up the ranks with experience. The senior levels would train with pads for full contact and at accelerated speeds. I would like to stress that it’s a non competitive Art so the ego is left at the door of the dojo. I can assure you that the softness and sensitivity of Aikido combined with the power and accuracy of Shito-ryu and Goju-ryu Karate styles in which adds to our technique is in fact very practical at close quarters.

The term 'Play fighting' is used because as we train we show respect for our partners. If we find an advantage when training we perform a technique or strike but not as so to injure our partner. So because we train to be sensitive to our partner we can feel if they can't move with the technique or strike and therefore do not force it on. Part of our training involves counter moves and covers so when we are engaged in training the purpose is not to stop or get stuck. A strike comes in we move or allow the force to move us if it connects 'Like flowing water' we do not stop we go around an obstacle.
We also incorporate this training using the jo.

I do have some videos but they are not ready for release just yet. When I finish them I shall post some links!

This page explains a little about what we use in our technique.. http://www.ryusui-ryu.org/content/view/1/29

Hello, intersted to know about other aspects of your art, nice aproach the way that you ease students into this evolved style. Do ou encourage fitness training from the onset, espescially with regards to complete martial art novices, at what stage would you expect to see students sparring to full extent and how does your belt system work ?

Hmm, it seems you're about 45 minutes away from me.

Maybe I'll drop in at some point, and see if you really are as "real" as you seem to be claiming.

*gets video camera*

Ryusui-ryu is not teaching people to kill others. It is not teaching people to fight in cage fights. But you would find Ryusui Ryu at 7.

What modern martial arts class open to the general public in the United Kingdom does?

If you would find it at '7' I would say thats quite intense, especially if you put cage fighting at 10!

softness and sensitivty of Aikido

Where have you learnt aikido? A guy who trains with us spent three years training in Aikido... the guy can rip your arm off! I think further clarification is needed here.

If a strike connects we allow it to move us

Im not sure I understand. Are you saying you encourage students to take hits over avoidance?

Will def look forward to the videos because without sounding harsh it sounds as if you are trying to repackage two very efficient martial arts in inefficent philosophised clothing.

Ryusui_Ryu wrote:
Hi all,

I have joined this forum to talk to fellow martial artists and to spread the word of our new Martial Arts School Ryusui-Ryu.
Ryusui-Ryu means 'Like Flowing Water'
Ryusui-Ryu is a new school of martial arts founded in July 2006 by Sensei Dave Waters. Sensei Waters has derived the school after many years of study in different martial arts including karate, aikido, iaido, judo kyudo and wing chun. It is a subtle blend of traditional karate and aikido with contributions from other martial arts techniques amalgamated together to form one style. It is completely non-competitive with an emphasis on relaxed, flowing movements.

This art form is without a doubt full of real quality. Unlike some clubs that have reamined static in their Arts (which is fine for them) we have taken it to another level. The increased sensitivty and softness that our new system 'Kumi-Tai' has given us all, and continues to give us is amazing. It's what all people seek in our lifes, Harmony, sensitivity, Peace...
I have trained with other arts and been to other clubs and I must say that most now days have remained static, egotistical and robotic. I see some clubs reaching out to the next level and really helping our arts and our race to evolve with the idea's of soft harmonious movements.
Kumi-Tai: This is the core of the style and is the main arena where all of our techniques, taisabaki, strikes, holds, throws etc come together. At the beginner level it is performed at a slow pace allowing the student to experiment safely and learn how to deal with a variety of attacks. The emphasis is always on safety and learning, we often refer to this as 'play fighting'. As such we are not learning to fight but we are learning the skills of fighting.
Please feel free to check out the website www.ryusui-ryu.org and post any questions or just points of view!


I look forward to chatting and sharing with you all.
Peace..

A post like this always raises my 'spidey' senses, firstly I'm always suspicious when someone tries to make themself look bigger by making others smaller, the website gives no background on the instructors, no lineage, no affiliations, no qualifications, no proper links to others, so my questions would be:

Who are the instructors?
What are their grades in their respective arts and from whom did they obtain them?
What are the clubs affiliations?
What links does the club have to others?
What coaching qualifications do the instructors have?
Are they CRB cleared?
What insurance does the club and instructors have?

That's the kind of information I would be looking for on a web site....

Steve Rowe wrote:

A post like this always raises my 'spidey' senses, firstly I'm always suspicious when someone tries to make themself look bigger by making others smaller, the website gives no background on the instructors, no lineage, no affiliations, no qualifications, no proper links to others, so my questions would be:

Who are the instructors?
What are their grades in their respective arts and from whom did they obtain them?
What are the clubs affiliations?
What links does the club have to others?
What coaching qualifications do the instructors have?
Are they CRB cleared?
What insurance does the club and instructors have?

That's the kind of information I would be looking for on a web site....

Hi steve,
Fancy coming along with me at some point?

I'd rather spend my time training and teaching - life's too short. The club might be okay, if that's the case I'd suggest they radically rethink their advertising campaign....

Hi all thanks for your comments, I can see there is a few questions. I'll do my best to answer...

Where have you learnt aikido? A guy who trains with us spent three years training in Aikido... the guy can rip your arm off!
Aikido means 'The way of harmony with universal energy' Tearing someones arm off is not very harmonious.O'Sensei created his technique by turning an art of harm to an art of compassion. Using love to transform fighting into a peaceful resolution by respecting his opponent and not causing intentional harm. The essence of Aikido is to attack the balance not the person. I personally think 3 years is not enough time to understand Aikido truely. When someone fights the movement of a technique thats when u get serious injurys. Of course by attacking the balance someone can easily be thrown or by the use of outward joint rotations and immobalisations be guided to a position and held there. But the idea is not to hold the pain on, the pain is only when the opponent fights the technqiue therefore causing his own pain using his own energy.

'If a strike connects we allow it to move us'
Im not sure I understand. Are you saying you encourage students to take hits over avoidance?
I think that by saying 'IF a stike connnects' answers this to some degree. In any real situation, or random training situation, chances are you are gonna get hit. Buy training to move with these strikes we learn to move with the energy of the attack in order to end up in a possible advantageous position. (Tai-sabuki Body movement is a key element of our style and is used extensively in both our Randori and Kumi-tai to allow us to develop a soft flowing approach to avoid strikes, holds and multiple attackers)

This is why we start off slow at lower grades. As we become softer and more experianced the speed will increase in training eventually ending up to being padded up and training at faster speeds. So in a way we do encourage to get hit for training our sensitivity but through this we learn to move so the hit does not have the full effect. Again I must stress that we cater the speed to the experience so we avoid injurys with less experianced students.

The rough guide of rating Ryusui-Ryu at 7/10 with cage fighting being 10 is because of the random nature of our kumi-tai system. Although we are engaged in a non competative sparring situation the attacks and holds can come at anytime from anywhere. We do encourage good form and proper strikes/holds to be used but once engaged this doesn't always stay true once certain positions arrise. The goal is to keep things flowing using movement, counter techniques and strikes.

I appreciate your feedback about the website information on our Sensei's and experiance etc... We are part of an assosiation called 'Kyudokai' www.kyudokai.org but I will suggest to my Senior Sensei that we put more info about this.
What you have to remember is that this is a 'New' angle on Martial Arts introduced in 2006 by our founder Sensei Dave Waters.In my oppinion he has achieved mastery in his method and it truely is a wonderful way to train and I feel it could benefit anyone who works with him. Also my intention is not to make ourselfs look 'bigger' by be-littling other clubs, we train to lose our ego's and we dont want to claim to be the best, we only claim to do our best with our Art.

If you would like to come along, Monday 8:30pm Meadows School, London Road, Southborough, Kent TN4 0RJ. If you would be so kind as to email This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it or This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it to let us know your coming, through courtesy more than anything it would be appreciated.

Thanks again for your comments!

Our belt systems works from 8th Kyu (8thKyu White with Red tag, 7thKyu Red, 6thKyu Yellow, 5thKyu Orange, 4thKyu Green, 3rdKyu Blue, 2ndKyu Purple, 1stKyu Brown, 1st DAN Black) We teach the Kumi-Tai from beginner (using just holds) onwards but moving onto full contact would probably start at Yellow belt but in a controlled manner and it will accel as the student gains experiance. We always encourage fitness training but we don't want to be drill sergent's running our students into the ground. We want people to enjoy it and relax as they train. Around green/blue belt the training will take on a more senior approach.