Dan- Yeah of course! Same goes for Su Lin

I too see the other side of the argument and im not for one minute suggesting that getting your blackbelt is the way to becoming a fighter.

What does rattle my commentary though is regurgitated pseudo philosophy such as 'belts hold your pants up' etc.

Fundamentally, the question I would ask myself is this. Would I want a family member or friend taking up martial arts for the first time with an instructor that has not been formally vetted by a governing body and posses a certified blackbelt grade. I know what the answer is for me. NO.

I totally agree. My sisten wanted to get my niece into martial arts, but they live nowhere near me. I told her she's not taking my niece to any school without me there to check out the head instructors credentials. I went and met with the Head Instructor, talked with him, and I am familiar with the organization he is a member of. So, I learned that it was a good school due to credentials, but also because I spent considerable time with the owner as well. My advice to anyone is not to start at any school until you've met the owner/head instructor. No matter what kind of trial period they give you. You need to find out if the owner/head inst. is the kind of person (or people) you can respect and learn from.

dmccarthy wrote:
Pete - I hope you realize I'm not arguing against belts or anything. I was just stating that I don't think there is a need for a panel of instructors at every test. I do believe in organization, rank, and curriculum. But I also see the other side as well. I know that no belt dictates what I am and what I'm capable of. I just know they are a good tool for me as an instructor.

Su Lin - You are partially correct. There were no belt ranks in traditional kung fu. That does not mean there were no sashes. The sash (as well as the obi in Jap/Ok MA) is actually an important training tool. The whole purpose of the belt/sash initially was as a training apparatus. According to Yang Jwing-Ming, the sash was supposed to make sure the abdominal viscera were not jostled too much in practice due to the vibration, shifting, and rotation of the hips/waist. Sifu Starr has told me that the belt knot on the obi was meant to sit over the Dan Tien (and not up on the belly button). It was supposed to be tight enough that you could feel the knot press on you if you were breathing properly. It was a way to make you constant aware of your Dan Tien.


edit - Black Belt is also one of those things that everyone has the wrong idea about. Most people think you need to have your hands registered as lethal weapons on reaching black belt. heck, some people think you need to kill someone to reach beyond it.

I try to show my students that Black Belt is an important step, but that's all it is...a step on the path. I try not to overemphasize it, otherwise what you get are 1st Dan students who quit because they think they've mastered their art and there is noting more to learn.


Yes I know about those sashes, I was meaning in the concept that we are talking about grades etc here.

So back to the original question. Do you think that one needs a black belt in a certain martial art to be defined as a good martial artist. Or (as I believe) it should be defined on knowledge and ability to fight. What do you think?

Knowledge and ability to fight first and foremost. If your style has belts/sashes and you feel happy learning that way then go for it. I just don't agree with those people who say you need a sash/belt to demonstrate your abilities when it comes to fighting (and yes, to me martial arts are fundamentally about fighting skill).

That's basically it. A black belt can be a nice thing to have, but you're the same person the day before your grading as you are the day you get awarded your new pant-rope. You don't suddenly level up in super powers the day you first put it on. Obviously people who don't do any MA will put a lot of importance on the black belt, but that's just pop culture talking.
Then again, if you get to that point, as has been mentioned before, that's when you really start learning stuff.

Phil Evans wrote:

Then again, if you get to that point, as has been mentioned before, that's when you really start learning stuff.
Or NOT.

skill and knowledge are most important. the belt is a symbol and nothing more. it isn't a bad thing, but if the belt becomes more important than what you did to earn it, then you've lost your way somewhere.