somebody i know how trains in TKD has just got his blue belt
but the thing is that i dont belive he was good enough to get it he cant even do a basic stance or attack. i am asstonished that he has made it this far. thier are a lot of seinior grades that agree with me on this matter. i am worried that the standerds of some clubs are dropping (leting anybody pass a graiding) it isnt how it used to be when i was grading for my blue belt i had to train so hard.

i was hoping to hear wat your oppinions are.

Welcome to the modern martial arts world.

To save your sanity, concerntrate on what you're doing, and whether or not you deserve the grade you hold.

In the end, they are the ones who are cheating themselves, by not working hard enough, and by accepting a grade they haven't earned.

I'm just wondering if we are being a bit harsh here. I don't know the person you are speaking of here but by the sounds of it, I'm getting the impression that the implication is that this person hasn't worked hard either.

I think there is a difference between someone who is lazy and cruising through their grades and someone who is trying really hard and struggling with some of the techniques, but have persevered and is showing a good martial spirit.

Of course, there is money involved these days, such is the world we live in now but the test will be when they go for their black belt...I wonder what the result would be then?

Lesley Jackson wrote:
I think there is a difference between someone who is lazy and cruising through their grades and someone who is trying really hard and struggling with some of the techniques, but have persevered and is showing a good martial spirit.


This is an interesting point.
I agree, we should differntiate between a lazy student, and a student who tries hard but is maybe not as talented as others.
Certainly, a lazy student shouldn't get a grade for turning up and going through the motions.
But at the same time, a less talented student shouldn't get a grade for "trying hard". Life isn't fair. Let them have a commendation, a recognition that they have worked hard. But don't reward them with a grade, if they can't adequately fulfil the requirements for said grade.

Another factor that you have to consider is the potential for each student. I've seen several students come and go over the years. Some can grasp a technique after being shown only once or twice. They practice it on their own, and are ready to move on to something else. Then there are the ones who have to be shown over and over again in order for them to really get the basics of it down.

There is nothing wrong with them. In my opinion, it is just more difficult for some people to grasp the concept of martial arts. People say that no one is unteachable. And they're right. Everyone can learn something. However, not everybody learns at the same pace.

Maybe this was the best that the student could do. Maybe not. I'm not sure of his situation. There was a student in my school who advanced to the rank of green belt. Nice guy. Tried hard. He was just severely uncoordinated. My teacher, (wisely) realized that this guy was doing his best. He had the knowledge that he needed, just not the coordination to perform the techniques with a certain amount of fluid and grace. Maybe that's the case with that guy too.

thinblueline wrote:

There was a student in my school who advanced to the rank of green belt. Nice guy. Tried hard. He was just severely uncoordinated. My teacher, (wisely) realized that this guy was doing his best. He had the knowledge that he needed, just not the coordination to perform the techniques with a certain amount of fluid and grace. Maybe that's the case with that guy too.

Having the knowledge is not enough. If he cannot perform the techniques appropriately, then he should not receive the grade.

When I was learning Kick boxing i don't remember anyone not passing at the grading. That's not to say that you couldn't though. I remember the instructors being quite strict about their standards and telling people during the grading "that kick was not good enough, do it again."

It seems to me that if you can't do the techniques to the required standard you should not receive the grade. I saw a blind woman a while ago who achieved a black belt (Karate i think) and while she may not have been able to see her opponents, she could perform the techniques very well and could hear where other people were.

This guys main problem was his lack of coordination and his nervousness when it came time to test. It took him twice as long to achieve a rank as other students. He could teach. He knew a good kata or a good technique when he saw it and he could explain the fundamentals behind each one. And some of them he could do very well. However, on some of them his body just refused to cooperate with what he was telling it to do. He knew that a good front stance was 60 percent of weight on the front leg and 40 percent on the back. But when he did it, it was invariably 50/50. While coordination can be developed in people who already possess a certain degree of it, is it something that can be learned by someone who has very little to start with? And if not, should we tell those people, sorry, you'll never be good at martial arts. Try something else.

There was one thing I remember my area master told us at the instructor's course I attended recently (he is also one of the examiners for our association). He also spoke of what to do as an instructor when you have someone who isn't as good as the others and he said he would award marks for someone who showed good knowledge of the art, ie, had done their research on the history or had a good grasp of the philosophy.

I think the point he was making was that people have different strengths within a martial art and that he wants people to earn their black belt with different sets of skills - some are good fighters, some will be good teachers or officials.

I agree that you do need a certain amount of competance to earn your belts but where exactly do you put the bar?

Lesley Jackson wrote:
I agree that you do need a certain amount of competance to earn your belts but where exactly do you put the bar?

I would put the bar at hte point where a student HAS to be able to perform the required techniques well, first time with no prompting.
If they are not as talented as other students, then they should work harder to get better.

This is where a lot of martial arts are getting watered down. If only in the real world, people were rewarded for trying.

I can just see the episodes of who wants to be a millionaire now...

"You got that question wrong, and now you loose £250,000... But it was a subject you're not to informed on, so we'll give you the million anyway!"

We can dream...

In the mean-time, make everyone work hard for their grade. A pass should only be awarded to those who can demonstrate what they need to demonstrate perfectly.

thinblueline wrote:
While coordination can be developed in people who already possess a certain degree of it, is it something that can be learned by someone who has very little to start with? And if not, should we tell those people, sorry, you'll never be good at martial arts. Try something else.

Good point. Also at what point do you tell them they'll never be good? I had a guy who really struggled for a year or so and just about scraped through gradings; then all of a sudden something seemed to click and he became the model student.

I think my views on this subject change and I probably said something different in the "what does your black belt mean" thread.

My general view on gradings, is that the first few belts are mainly about attitude and effort and as you go through the belts it becomes more about technique. If you aren't as physically gifted then it will take a lot longer to go through the grades

I usually don't let people grade if I think there are going to fail, which means that it looks like everyone passes. Though I did fail two people in the last grading.

SteveBruce wrote:

Good point. Also at what point do you tell them they'll never be good?

You never tell someone that they'll never be any good. You just tell them that they have to work harder.