donthedragon wrote:
[quote] but I didn't feel the need to research a story to know that what happened in that video is wrong.

There was no excuses for this, regardless of the background. [quote]

this was my point originally,

jamie, you are right on when you are reffering to the way the internet blows things out of proportion, and twists things and then people jump on the bandwagon without researching what they are commenting on,

but i think it's completely moot that what happened in that video was way too wrong and whatever media controversy is happening around it is irrelevant, people are mainly commenting on the video footage, i don't see what more is needed, nobody KNOWS the facts, except those involved, but what happens on that video is pretty straightforward, whether the guy was killed or not, it was terrible

Jamie Clubb wrote:
It wasn't meant like that at all, I just wanted to express an opinion.

Like what? Like an uncritical and unresearched analysis of a piece of footage shot two decades ago? Are normally this forthcoming with your opinions without first stopping and thinking about what it is you are actually commenting on? What would change your opinion?

I am genuinely curious, as your response is most certainly not in the minority.

What does the time-frame matter? In what way does this alter the fact that the beating this guy took was nothing short of cowardly? What are you trying to prove? Oh, you googled and found that some cops say the guy didn't die (or that there was no evidence that he met his demise), right? And you take cops' word on everything especially when, if that guy had really died and there was no investigation, nothing, they come across at best, inept, at worst, corrupt? Perhaps there's reasons behind the police denying allegations--there's certainly many precedents for it and it's not entirely difficult to believe that they'd attempt to hide something they totally screwed up or didn't care about. But you're the paragon of critical analysis so we'll all cower to you and your google-fu.

If it wasn't blatantly obvious what Don was commenting on to you then I suggest you view the video again... and again. Then maybe you'll come to grips with what he was talking about and, instead of coming off like a know-it-all wannabe throwing around polysyllabisms and self-aggrandising corollary to the footage and its backstory (which you've slandered as it came from the net yet strangely everything you purport to know about it comes from the same source), possibly show yourself to be something other than a James Randi wannabe. BELIEVE EVERYTHING OFFICIAL UNCRITICALLY BUT RETAIN THE STANCE OF A SKEPTIC WHILE DENIGRATING THOSE WHO MAKE COMMENTS THAT DON'T ALIGN WITH THE MIGHTY PSEUDO-SKEPTIC'S!

Yeah, that's how you come across, mate. Might wanna look into your malignant narcissism. In a pond. And fall in.

amie, you are right on when you are reffering to the way the internet blows things out of proportion, and twists things and then people jump on the bandwagon without researching what they are commenting on,

but i think it's completely moot that what happened in that video was way too wrong and whatever media controversy is happening around it is irrelevant, people are mainly commenting on the video footage, i don't see what more is needed, nobody KNOWS the facts, except those involved, but what happens on that video is pretty straightforward, whether the guy was killed or not, it was terrible

But facts are important, Mick. I would argue that people aren't just commenting on what they see in the video, but are being actively guided to take a certain point of view implied by the way it is being promoted. Other than the Washington Post report and their brief interview with the local police, we haven't heard from anyone who knew the members of the karate school or the victim. All we are getting is a straightforward attempt to elicit an emotional response. The item has made the news - big deal. I know PR companies who do that sort of thing for a living and have fooled the world press on a regular basis. It's not really that difficult.

When I discuss this matter I am not taking a purely academic point of view. I have experienced and seen others experience trial by media. Did I become sceptical when I first saw this? No, I felt angry with the bullies in the footage. I took it at face value. Then my discipline as a martial arts coach and student kicked in and my sense of reasoning as an historian came into play. I hate being mindlessly led. One rule we have learnt from history is that propaganda is a very powerful tool and this is a form of propaganda. It doesn't have any direct purpose than most of the junk out there on the internet other than to get a certain response.

When we see footage like this, I argue that we should fight our easily led emotional response. We know it looks bad, but we should immediatley question the source. I am not happy with the more sober report I have found other than it seems a bit more balanced and it draws on something that resembles PRIMARY source witness testimony.

Any attempt to throw in fiction with fact should be stamped out dispassionately and indiscriminately.

The PRIMARY source that most people have commented on was the video which was posted PRIMARILY by the dojo "owner" on youtube with accompanying text bragging about how hard he was and how they taught this guy a lesson.

While I was quick to rush off and find allegations of the guy's demise, it's possible that's wrong. It's also within the realms of possibility that the cops might be full of it too. One would think, were they so sure this guy didn't die, that they'd have some evidence for it. A name would be nice. I wouldn't be afraid to wager that they don't even know that. Hospital records, as it's likely he was hospitalised if he didn't end up dead, would also be good. Surely with all the people on his back as they are now, the dojo owner and teh cops would be endeavouring to clear dojo man's name. There may be a problem with confidentiality regarding hospital records, sure, but SOME evidence that proved this man is still alive and kicking is warranted before I buy any tales from police who, were it fact that this man didn't live through this attack, would most certainly not tell the whole truth if it's going to cast them in a negative light. If it's true he was a transient (which seems highly probable) anyone could say anything about him and his whereabouts and no one would be the wiser.

I wonder what happened to investigative journalism.

The PRIMARY source that most people have commented on was the video which was posted PRIMARILY by the dojo "owner" on youtube with accompanying text bragging about how hard he was and how they taught this guy a lesson.

I'm not so sure about that. From what I have read, the video was apparently first up by the karate sensei on YouTube a few months back. He then got lambasted for it and the video was taken down. I have not seen the footage as posted by this individual. The video has then since been re-posted by several people who first began orchestrating a campaign against this sensei and his dojo. The dojo appears to have be defunct for a number of years.

While I was quick to rush off and find allegations of the guy's demise, it's possible that's wrong.

Highly improbable is perhaps a better description wouldn't you agree? This "cold case" thing has not been put across convincingly at all. There are no legitimate and verifiable leads to a case of a corpse of the description of the individual in the video being found in a dumpster not long after the alleged assault.

It's also within the realms of possibility that the cops might be full of it too. One would think, were they so sure this guy didn't die, that they'd have some evidence for it

No plausible or credible case has been put forward that the man in the video was killed. Until there is, no one is obliged to disprove anything.

I wonder what happened to investigative journalism.

It was replaced by speculative journalism, which makes you wonder why this has become dead news.