Su Lin wrote:
I may not know much about the whole ego thing, but I do understand about the nature of happiness and fulfillment ,that's the angle I was coming from.

Is it possible to overcome this nature of ego? Can you be "succesful" without wanting the material gains? Depends what you define as success I suppose.

Funnily enough, the notion of ego is something I'm trying to get to grips with in relation to Buddhism at the moment. My brain hurts a little more every day

I know Su Lin you was indeed coming from that angle I can see that. I was only referenceing to your comment on not understanding the 'trophy glory'

Can you overcome the ego?? Yes you can... How do I know? because I am learning to do it myself.
Eliminate the ego 100% so it doesn't exist.... I don't think so but to overcome it, understand that you control the ego and the ego does not control you.

Do you feel that you can still fight to win,even with no ego? I suppose wanting to do well is something different. I have come across a couple of guys at training who have real ego problems,especially when it comes to sparring with me (a woman) and they have to win at all costs. One even injured me,putting me out for over a month due to his desire to get one up on me.
It's a really interesting area.It seems far easier to deal with the concept of not wanting materialistic gains but when it comes to "winning" it all becomes blurred.

Winning or surviving?

Ego and pride go pretty much hand in hand. Your ego tells you to protect your pride, protect your image. Again, that links into the "trophy winning" cycle. Your ego tells you that you "need" these trophys in order for others to take you seriously. And so you massage your ego by getting the trophys, and everyone says how wonderful they are, and you feel good.
This is what causes the brain to start regarding the gathering of "trophy's" as the route to happiness. But sooner or later, your new trophy loses its pretty shine, and people don't admire it quite like they used to. So your ego tells you something is wrong, people are losing respect for you, you need another trophy to get respect...

And on, and on it goes...

Ryusui_Ryu wrote:
Winning or surviving?


This is the difference I think. I was having a looong conversation about this with my boyfriend,about when I am rolling how it's not so much a case of winning for me, but about not getting caught and a survival instinct taking over. I'm a woman being in very close contact with a man in a sparring situation- I do wonder if some kind of survival instinct/adrenaline comes into play rather than wanting to "win".

well I think with regards to the ego...

Winning is about winning

Surviving is about preserving life.
There is no ego in survival because its not something you want its something you need..

Ryusui_Ryu wrote:

Surviving is about preserving life.
There is no ego in survival because its not something you want its something you need..

But sometimes the fight for survival comes from the desire to defend the ego....

See what you have gone and started Pete!!!!

So when we train ma, are we doing it to survive or win?

Su Lin wrote:


So when we train ma, are we doing it to survive or win?

For de lamenting of de women Conan

No survival doesn't come from defending the ego...

Survival comes from preserving life, the ego doesn't come into it at this point.

We train MA for many reasons as we all know not one or the other, its one of those things that incorporates many things.

If you are going to die what use is an ego?? Your not trying to make yourself look good or be maintain your image if someone wants to end your life...

You could genereate more of an ego from surviving depending how you look at it I guess so if you was a death match champion I guess your fighting to surivive would be through your ego of being the best.

But really the preservation of life, the survival I don't think any of us feel it until we are actually in a life threatening situtation.

No survival doesn't come from defending the ego...

Survival comes from preserving life, the ego doesn't come into it at this point.


It depends on why you're in a situation where you need to defend your life.
If someone is trying to steal your wallet, what is making you fight to defend it? Your ego. You don't want to be seen as a weak person, so you may fight to defend a flap of leather with a few pieces of paper and plastic in it.

Or if someone insults your wife/girl friend (and in some cases, husband/boy friend), and you try to "defend" your partners honour. Is this not satisfying your own ego? Another form of defending the image that your ego wants to keep?

The only time I can see that is fighting for survival, and not satisfaction is if someone who you have never met before, never had any dealings with, jumps out and randomly attacks you.


So when we train ma, are we doing it to survive or win?

It depends on which MA you practice, and who your teacher is, and what your reasons are for practicing.

Bailu Taiji wrote:


It depends on why you're in a situation where you need to defend your life.
If someone is trying to steal your wallet, what is making you fight to defend it? Your ego. You don't want to be seen as a weak person, so you may fight to defend a flap of leather with a few pieces of paper and plastic in it.

Your defending a wallet, thats not survival thats preservation of your belongings not your life.


Or if someone insults your wife/girl friend (and in some cases, husband/boy friend), and you try to "defend" your partners honour. Is this not satisfying your own ego? Another form of defending the image that your ego wants to keep?

Yes its satisfying a ego but again your defending honor not life.


The only time I can see that is fighting for survival, and not satisfaction is if someone who you have never met before, never had any dealings with, jumps out and randomly attacks you.

If anyone tries to take your life, or might I add if you are starving and need food or water to live ego doesn't come into it. You just need to live...

We choose to eat exotic foods and drink fine drinks and by having these we are surviving but if all that was taken away you wouldnt care what food it was so long as you are fed and watered...

Most people wouldn't think of going and killing a cow or rabbit and start eating it because you might think the process is gross and you wouldn't wanna get covered in guts and yuncky stuff because of your image...
However if you had no choice you wouldn't care about that...