I would add that I have found that many people, maybe even most people, who believe in one of the more 'well known' conspiracy theories tend to believe in just about every one that comes along.
If you are unwilling or unable to answer questions put to you, then how can you dismiss people who ask the questions you do not?
Does this not make you a sheep?
Nope. It's called "burden of proof". In this instance the burden of proof falls heavily on the conspiracy theorists. It is far more in line with herd instinct to just go running after something sensationalist than to take a more reasoned approach. I am not an architect nor a scientist, but I am a historian. And what history has taught us is that conspiracies are exceptionally hard to contain. The more people involved in a conspiracy the harder it is to keep it secret. Watergate is a prime example of this.
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I am not an architect nor a scientist, but I am a historian. And what history has taught us is that conspiracies are exceptionally hard to contain. The more people involved in a conspiracy the harder it is to keep it secret. Watergate is a prime example of this.
Mr Clubb your spot on with that! Couldnt agree more with you there.
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Nope. It's called "burden of proof". In this instance the burden of proof falls heavily on the conspiracy theorists. It is far more in line with herd instinct to just go running after something sensationalist than to take a more reasoned approach.
Sorry, but that's the oldest copout in te book.
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As you travel to the mountain, there may be people ahead of you. You may pass some of these people on the way, and some of them may pass you. You are all going to the same place, so it is as well to be civil to each other on the journey!
Good luck on your journey, I hope that our paths cross, and we may travel together for a time!
If you touch my Llama, I WILL kill you!
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Have you actually watched or read any of those links Jamie?
Not just the snippets that seem to confirm what you want to see.
The case is far from 'closed' as you put it.
It may be that you do not wirh to discuss it.
It may also be that you do not wirh others to discuss it.
You may be one to wish a jury to find a verdict without exploring all the evidence.
It would be unfair to assume that of others.
Me, I'm plowing my way through the history of the Persian Empire just now and I'm far from satisfied.
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As you travel to the mountain, there may be people ahead of you. You may pass some of these people on the way, and some of them may pass you. You are all going to the same place, so it is as well to be civil to each other on the journey!
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If you touch my Llama, I WILL kill you!
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Re:9/11- what the architects say 2 Months, 4 Weeks ago
I read a few of those links you sent and the problem is that despite people saying why it happened and its because of abc, you have equal evidence to say no thats not right...
Example is the heat from the fire, apparently the heat required to destroy the central structure and bring it to melting point is a very high temperature. They say that the jet fuel couldn't burn hot enough to melt it the way they claim.
The explosions is another example... They say nobody heard them? but people did and there is video footage of flashed on several floors of the building one after the other.
People who research conspiracy theories don't always believe them, but are keeping an open mind and looking into their own beliefs from the evidence presented.
I think that for anyone to state they know exactly whats goes on with the goverments be it UFO's aliens, terrorism, banking etc makes you ignorant.
Millions of people claim that somethings up with the way certain things have gone down without question and just because the 'officials' say its not true doesn't mean its not true.
The fact is that powers have lied in the past and then admitted it later on saying oh we had to lie about that..
It's not just USA hiding things from the people so even to think that its all about USA conspiracy is also arrogant. There a thing called project camelot which is to do with Norway, there is the theory about chemical trails which involves Europe.
If someone doesn't try to find holes and reasons for things other than what we are told we would all be sheeps, so even if the conspiracy thoery is so bizarre it couldn't possibly be true then it backs up the fact that what was said to have happened was the truth. Though in a greedy world I doubt the big guys in power are free from corruption and truely show compassion for us 'little' people.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If you wanna believe what they tell you fine, but there are those of us who will look into ourselfs and believe otherwise should we come to that conclusion which again I stress doesn't always end in believe the system is lying...
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Re:9/11- what the architects say 2 Months, 4 Weeks ago
Good historian research facts and do not deal in absolutes. I say "case closed" in reference to their being a conspiracy theory. There is not sufficient evidence to suggest that the US government coordinated the 9/11 attacks.
I haven't thoroughly read each of the links I posted. I could not read the entire report, just the summary. The first link is a very in depth report indeed and I just don't have the time to read this through. However, I did not operate on a confirmation bias. I didn't need to as the big picture represented is fairly undeniable: it is highly improbable that there was a conspiracy. If a government had the power to do this do you think we would be even allowed to discuss this now?
Yes, politicians have lied and they often do. There have been conspiracies, plenty of them, but they are uncovered pretty quickly. This is mainly down to the fact that the more people involved the harder it is to keep any sort of secret.
History will always have its inconsistancies. It is not a religion. We are always finding out new things, but it is bad history to dismiss the bigger picture with nitpicking details - details not upheld by truly objective researchers.
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Re:9/11- what the architects say 2 Months, 4 Weeks ago
Jamie Clubb wrote:
The first link is a very in depth report indeed and I just don't have the time to read this through.
It is, which is why I asked several times if people had watched all of it, 'before' chiming in.
it is highly improbable that there was a conspiracy. If a government had the power to do this do you think we would be even allowed to discuss this now?
We'd be allowed to discuss what they wished us to see.
e.g. not Bhutto naming the person who already assassinated Bin Laden ( as edited by the BBC), before she was executed herself.
Yes, politicians have lied and they often do. There have been conspiracies, plenty of them, but they are uncovered pretty quickly. This is mainly down to the fact that the more people involved the harder it is to keep any sort of secret.
You can be part of a huge cover-up and not even realise it.
You could be contributin to that just now Jamie?
History will always have its inconsistancies. It is not a religion. We are always finding out new things, but it is bad history to dismiss the bigger picture with nitpicking details - details not upheld by truly objective researchers.
When you dismiss details from history, it becomes the art of politics.
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Re:9/11- what the architects say 2 Months, 4 Weeks ago
It is, which is why I asked several times if people had watched all of it, 'before' chiming in.
I meant my link, as in the last post I made with links. It was a hugely detailed report answering every single one the main "truther" points. Your link is old news put up by a minority BBC programme.
We'd be allowed to discuss what they wished us to see.
e.g. not Bhutto naming the person who already assassinated Bin Laden ( as edited by the BBC), before she was executed herself.
Okay, we are heavily into fiction here, but I'll play. You contradict yourself. You wouldn't even see an edited version as a lay member of the public would you. If there was a conspiracy that could successfully pull off a massive illusion involving the deaths of hundreds of people in one day.
Where was CNN? Where were the left wing press? Where were those who would benefit enormously from even the slightest hint that the government planned the attacks? We know about Bush's drinking, we know about the election controversy. I mean c'mon! Think about what you are saying.
You can be part of a huge cover-up and not even realise it.
You could be contributin to that just now Jamie?
You got me banged to rights. I take it you are joking, as there is some serious paranoia going on here otherwise. History has shown us that a conspiracy is only a strong as its weakest link. The more people involved the more likely it will come out - and it usually does big time!
When you dismiss details from history, it becomes the art of politics.
I wasn't dismissing details. You just turned my statement around. What I said was if you have compelling evidence going in one direction you don't completely change course because there is a single contradiction. The contradiction is taken on board, but the course is only changed if more of this evidence piles up and outweighs the mainstream evidence. This is what I mean by "burden of proof".
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Re:9/11- what the architects say 2 Months, 4 Weeks ago
Jamie Clubb wrote: It is, which is why I asked several times if people had watched all of it, 'before' chiming in.
I meant my link, as in the last post I made with links. It was a hugely detailed report answering every single one the main "truther" points. Your link is old news put up by a minority BBC programme.
You got that back to front Jamie.
What I put up pre-dates the BBC program you refer to.
Excerpts of what I posted were used in the BBC program.
[quote]We'd be allowed to discuss what they wished us to see.
Okay, we are heavily into fiction here, but I'll play. You contradict yourself. You wouldn't even see an edited version as a lay member of the public would you. If there was a conspiracy that could successfully pull off a massive illusion involving the deaths of hundreds of people in one day.
Would I be saying so if I hadn't already seen it?
Where was CNN? Where were the left wing press? Where were those who would benefit enormously from even the slightest hint that the government planned the attacks? We know about Bush's drinking, we know about the election controversy. I mean c'mon! Think about what you are saying.
You either want to focus on one specific thing, or you don't
The question put to everyone on this thread and indeed to you personally Jamie, is/was "Do you have no doubt?"
Now spin that any way you like, but it's a yes/no question.
You can be part of a huge cover-up and not even realise it.
You could be contributin to that just now Jamie?
History has shown us that a conspiracy is only a strong as its weakest link. The more people involved the more likely it will come out - and it usually does big time!
History is usually written by the victor!
When you dismiss details from history, it becomes the art of politics.
I wasn't dismissing details. You just turned my statement around. What I said was if you have compelling evidence going in one direction you don't completely change course because there is a single contradiction. The contradiction is taken on board, but the course is only changed if more of this evidence piles up and outweighs the mainstream evidence. This is what I mean by "burden of proof".
I find that to be overly simplistic.
I simply opened a topic of discussion and said "What do you think?"
I did that because I did watch it and it gave me pause for thought.
At the back of my mind is the "what if all this is true" issue and that leads me to want to know more.
Not grab a banner and go on marches shouting slogans, but look into it more than superficially, so I've been starting with history 2,500 years ago to see what the beef is.
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As you travel to the mountain, there may be people ahead of you. You may pass some of these people on the way, and some of them may pass you. You are all going to the same place, so it is as well to be civil to each other on the journey!
Good luck on your journey, I hope that our paths cross, and we may travel together for a time!
If you touch my Llama, I WILL kill you!
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