Thats a very good point Ryusui.. instead of try to teach the very young eralier and earlier how to read and write, we should be teaching them to play and how to interact with each other the whole basis of social skills.. but that would be just the start.. you still need to tackle the fear factor..

As no one smacks their kids anymore in fear of being taken to court, they grow up with no fear and no concern about a bad deed being punished.. so when they get to their teenage years they beleive they can do whatever they want without any fear of punishment.

Rule of discipline is concequence from actions...

We can enforce dscipline without hitting kids so long as parents work together and learn how to do it, and follow through with the consequence regardless of how the kids reacts and starts shouting 'I hate you' blah blah.

Kids minds are different to adults, the development is different and adults forget this.... or adults don't grow out of it!

3 strike rule, 1, 'Hey dont do that its wrong because of ABC'
2, 'Hey I said don't do that, if you do it again I will take away or do ABC'
3, 'Right I warned you about what would happen if you did it again' then execute ABC i.e taking away a playstation, TV whatever...

Kids stamps its feet as kids do, parent remains firm, kids calms down forgets about what they got taken away then goes and plays with something else...

There's a fantastic passage in the book Starship Troopers which deals with this matter.

Considering it was written in the 1959 its more than up to date when discussing the current society of yobs and 'juvinile delinquents'.

Must find a copy of the chapter somewhere as it really strikes a note when you read it. Anyone who's read it will know the section i mean.

I always find this sort of discussion interesting - and I always suggest before we cast judgement, please do spend a week in the secondary school I work in Leeds.

From my experience, there are several factors that contribute to 'yob culture' and yes, although a stint in the military may sort a lot of them out but what a lot of the problems, in my opinion, come down to is lack of parenting skills.

Time and again, when I do parents evenings and get the chance to tackle the parents of tricky kids I see either defensiveness ('it's the teacher's fault' or inertia ('it's not my fault, I don't know what to do'

Can of worms though.

Lesley Jackson wrote:
a lot of the problems, in my opinion, come down to is lack of parenting skills.

Time and again, when I do parents evenings and get the chance to tackle the parents of tricky kids I see either defensiveness ('it's the teacher's fault' or inertia ('it's not my fault, I don't know what to do'

Can of worms though.

I agree totally. Its not just an accident that the majority of troublemakers have aggressive/lazy/bad parents. If children aren't brought up with a certain amount of discipline and learning of morals what do they expect.

Morales and a sense of duty or right and wrong can only be taught as they grow up. If this is lacking then they take it from their peer group. If this happens to be an inner city gang or a group of the same poorly raised children then their morales develop along the lines of that group.

then again some kids are just bad despite the best efforts of the parents but at least its obvious they are trying.

Now i feel about 60 for using the word troublemakers

That's ok, I wrote the words 'tomfoolery' and 'ne're do well' on a recent detention slip!

In fact, while I am typing this post, I am supervising 5 young miscreants in a lunchtime detention and they are learning the lesson of sitting down quietly and not fidgeting - he he!