Hello, I had an interesting issue raised in my after-school TKD class today and wondered what other readers thought on the subject.

The school I teach in has a large Muslim cohort and therefore, so is some of my class.

One little lad who started today brought up the subject of bowing in class, something we always start the formal lesson with. He pointed out that he wasn't sure if his religion allowed him to bow to another person as it could be construed as another form of worship. I haven't come across this before as none of the other Muslim students have ever mentioned it.

I said that as far as I understood, bowing was an act of courtesty and much like the shaking of hands in European culture.

So I was wondering, what does the forum think about this?

Also, have you ever come across any cultural issues in your martial arts classes?

Lesley Jackson wrote:
Hello, I had an interesting issue raised in my after-school TKD class today and wondered what other readers thought on the subject.

The school I teach in has a large Muslim cohort and therefore, so is some of my class.

One little lad who started today brought up the subject of bowing in class, something we always start the formal lesson with. He pointed out that he wasn't sure if his religion allowed him to bow to another person as it could be construed as another form of worship. I haven't come across this before as none of the other Muslim students have ever mentioned it.

I said that as far as I understood, bowing was an act of courtesty and much like the shaking of hands in European culture.

So I was wondering, what does the forum think about this?

Also, have you ever come across any cultural issues in your martial arts classes?
Was hoping someone else would put their iron in the fire before me on this one.

Personally, I don't approve of bowing or salutations except as a measure of non-religious respect, like boxers 'touching gloves'.
I don't se myself as being damned to hell for doing so though.

I have in the past had to kneel and bow to the founder of Aikido's picture and such like, which grated with me on an integral level.

Surely everyone, with any religious bent should object to bowing in Asian Martial Arts.
Does the Bible not talk about 'Graven Idols' etc?

I always see bowing, whether to my teacher or to other students as either a sign of respect and acknowlegement of authority or as a thankyou after training with them.

It should (IMO) never be construed as a particularly religious or submissive gesture.

Bowing is not religious unless your mind and spirit makes it that way.

You bow to show respect not faith

In my experience bowing is used to show respect. This can be to a teacher, a training partner or an opponent. In Aikido you bow when entering the dojo and again after going on to the mats. This is to respect the dojo and the teachers and students there (and the founder of course). I have always found this a little frustrating as it seems a little too formal but i agree that respect should be given to other MAists.

What i would say to the cultural differences thing is that it depends on how formal the MA school is. If the school is informal then it should be up to the student whether they feel comfortable with it or not. However in formal circumstances where respect must be shown if bowing is the recognized way of showing the respect the if you can’t bow you cant train there.

Yeah in my opinion you should take all religious elements out of it.

I would of steered the youngster right off course with that one and said that the slight bow is to do with respecting your training partner - nothing to do with religion whatsoever.

i.e. Its like shaking hands.

Unless you have a religious idol and pray its not religion despite some modern MA having religious elements.

I find it sad that we have to question this things so much, when the general intention is completely neutral and innocent. I'm all for peace and love but political correctness really annoys me..

Lesley, if your students don't have any problem shaking hands (or touching gloves as mule wrote), they should have no objection. Anything can be imbued (correctly or not) into any action, but culturally a bow is just a greeting like a handshake.

I've come across this in the past in my TKD class.

One guy we had, made a very big thing about the fact he "bowed to no man" and he said it was because he was Muslim. I had no problem with him just standing to attention when everyone bowed and I suggested that as a matter of respect for others he could say thank you to people he had worked with and also say thank you to me at the end of class.

Unfortunately, and nothing to do with his religion, it became clear that he had an attitude problem and was quite disrespectful to partners by refusing to hold pads for them as he was tired after he had finished hitting the pads. He didn't last very long and was asked leave the club.

I've had other Muslim students who have no issue with bowing. For me there is nothing religious about bowing and it is just showing some respect for your training partner or instructor. I don't get the bowing to flags or pictures of past masters.

Touching gloves, saying thank you, shaking hands, having everyone clap (themselves not the instructor) at the end of class are alternatives.