mule wrote:
Sometimes even the pro's get it wrong;



Words fail me. At what point did they think that would be a good idea? What was it meant to demonstrate?

Here's another important lesson about knives and that's to stay away from people with knives or, in this case, swords.

So what would you recommend now then Mule 2008?

Ronin1185 wrote:
So what would you recommend now then Mule 2008?
Hey, I'm no authority.
What I'd reccomend, is that; if you're teaching bullshit, untried/untested (works empty hand so it'll work with a knife) crap, then you stop immediately.
Not just stop, but pass it up the chain and to everyone else you know, that teaching crap MA pertaining to Knife defence is a 60's relic we need to bin right now.
No-one is offering guarantees as to the efficacy of their knife programs, but some are more relative than others.

If you want a simple rule of thumb, then I'd say anybody teaching Knife defence who wears a belt, or uniform of any description should be ignored.
Sorry if that's harsh towards anyone on here, but that's the way I feel about it.

OK I'm going to talk from my personal view on my own life...

I don't learn to knife fight or defend against a knife as a specialist area.
I train in MA and also train with a random attack sparring system etc so my focus is being trained.

I don't want to go and learn specialist knife defence, if a seminar is on maybe I’ll go and check it out but my years are spent with MA.

I know that this is not a guaranteed defence against anyone, knife or no knife and I would rather get away than be beaten or killed.

BUT...

If someone is going to stab me regardless of what I have done to prevent it, I know that I would at least have a chance due to my training, and I think more so than someone who has not...
You could argue that it’s never happened so you can't comment, but it's not like I haven't had anything else happen to me where the MA has been used.

If he is going to kill me anyway I have to do something and I'd rather have some idea than no idea. I don't take any knife training as definitive against any knife threat just the same as a weapon free encounter I may come across, but the fact I know how to move, be alert, cover, strike, and stay calm n focused surely would be a benefit should my life be in danger...

You could say good luck with that you'll probably get killed!!! But I was going to be anyway, and with no training what so ever probably little chance of avoiding an attack.

So my point is, speaking from someone who doesn't want to go into knife training full time, is that I have skills that could help me should it be absolutely necessary but I don't know that they will...

Saying people should stop teaching knife techniques is too extreme... What would they do in tomiki aikido? They base the attack on a knife... you going to go tell them to stop doing it?

The teacher should be making things clear to a student, like mine has to me as I understand as I have written here that I don't rely or know that my skills will work in a knife threatening situation, but I do know that if my life depends on it, it may help me and I am not prepared to train against a knife full time....

I agree with Mule, and I also dis-agree with Mule. Input I think is justified, but the action I feel is not so.
It's like putting a ban on something because a few people have screwed it up like Samurai swords....

I must learn to write shorter posts!!!

Ryusui_Ryu wrote:


Saying people should stop teaching knife techniques is too extreme... What would they do in tomiki aikido? They base the attack on a knife... you going to go tell them to stop doing it?


Like they'd listen!

Hi Mule that tells what is not, but not what you would recommend?

Ronin1185 wrote:
Hi Mule that tells what is not, but not what you would recommend?
Hi Ronin.
The first part of this was intended to make people do a quick double check and see if maybe they fell into the 'kicking knives out of peoples hands' category.
If you flick back, there's a comparison of material on the video clips I posted.
If you missed it, check out the material by Tanswell and Vunak.
Some FMA systems have a good handle on this and the Dog Brothers stuff is worth checking out.

I can highly recommend Karl Tanswell's STAB programme and Mo Teague's approach too. I was impressed with their commonsensical attitude towards knife training and I base a lot of our training on their stuff. I also took on board advice from Dennis "Samural on the Door" Jones and John "Awesome" Anderson who offered a lot of case studies at different times when I have chatted with or interviewed them.

Number one thing all would agree on is to run as soon as a blade comes out - just as you would try to walk away or talk down a possible unarmed attack. Before this happened, however, you must work on whether or not you suspect someone is carrying a knife. It is mad, but I have had students who can really mix it up when things get physical or full contact, but are too polite to shout "what's that behind your back?" or "show me your hand!"

My recent article: http://www.clubbchimera.com/?p=290

00:30 and on

The knife is a wonderful tool, and like any tool it is only as effective as the maintenance you do on it. If you don't keep it sharp and clean it can become dull and rusty, or basically useless.

Stabs are nothing, blind slashing has random effects. The use of a knife as a self-defense tool requires that you understand the bio-mechanics of the human machine.

Remember the 10 Commandments of Steel:
1. Steel cuts flesh: always
Knives always cut flesh. That’s what they are designed to do. For over a million years the principle has stayed the same.

2. One cannot change rule #1
Since you didn’t write the rules, and the rules follow the law of physical science, you can’t rewrite the rules or change them.

3. Unless one has a blue suit with a big red “S” on it, rules #1 & #2 ALWAYS apply!

If your skin is stronger than steel, and your name is SUPERMAN, and you are able to withstand a “speeding bullet” then you can ignore rules #1 & #2. Otherwise rules #1 & #2 apply directly to you!

4. The principal of a knife: an edge that cuts flesh has NEVER changed

Knives have been used for over a million years. They were designed to cut flesh. They still cut flesh as effectively today as back then. It is mankind’s oldest friend and the principle is as good now as then!

5. Always lead with the edge, thrust with the point

The edge is what cuts, so use it! The tip or point is used to pierce flesh so thrust it out there towards the target!

6. Grip is determined by range, not arbitrary decisions or reasons: range is determined by length of the weapon.

How one grips a knife is dependent on where ones hand is in relationship to one’s opponent at best. Sometimes grip is whatever immediately comes to hand! The longer the weapon the greater the range: the shorter the weapon the closer the range.

7. Disarming an opponent who has a knife is unrealistic!

Try sticking your hands into a whirling blender. The only thing disarmed is your fingers, which literally get dis-fingered! Or your fingers become finge’s with R & S on the floor!

8. Weapon accessibility is paramount: no access no usage

This is a no-brainer. If you can’t get to your knife its useless!

9. Using steel is very serious: “I was in fear for my life.”

One doesn’t play or threaten with a knife. You only use it because you fear for your life! It can be a deadly tool!

10. One person drips, the other gushes, quickly becomes one person gushes, the other sports a “toe tag”.

The confrontation that you’ve scripted in your own head, can quickly get out of hand. A confrontation using knives can and will turn deadly very quickly! Everybody can LOSE!

These Commandments were taught to me by Bram Frank. I carry one of his tactical folding Gunting Knives that he designed, and made by Spyderco. Remember Commandment #9! If you are justified in Lethal Force and you use force that is designed to imobilize, and not kill, you are doing the individual a favor. However after you have stopped the attackers ability to be aggressive then you must step back. As a matter of fact some jurisdictions will require that you provide first aid. (Silly I know but TRUE!)

In this picture, if you look just above centre, you'll see a tiny red incision mark, which was the entry point to my femoral artery;



The bruising, is a result of the hard constant pressure rquired to stop the flow of blood.

mule wrote:
In this picture, if you look just above centre, you'll see a tiny red incision mark, which was the entry point to my femoral artery;



The bruising, is a result of the hard constant pressure rquired to stop the flow of blood.

Ouch! There must be a story to this?