Currently if you keep a weapon by your door or your bed and you use it, it is viewed as pre meditated murder by the law. And if you carry a knife or a gun your just outright rude! So what can one use as a weapon.

Things that you may have on you; hairspray, pens, keys, bags etc can all be used to defend yourself. Hairspray sprayed in the eyes is a VERY painful experience and after blinking a couple of times temporarily blinds someone or you can just bash them with the can. Pens can stab, keys can slash and a bag can shield you and be used as a club. None of these items have ever or will ever count as an offensive weapon.

Here’s a simple thing I do to hopefully up my chances of surviving a situation to get your thinking juices flowing so we can have a really good thread about this. I wear a hat. A beanie hat - dark blue with a light blue stripe if you’re interested. It's a distraction weapon. Throw it in your attackers face and get the first punch in.

I would like to throw this one out to the forum for any response and criticisms but I would also like to say I am an advocate of running away VERY fast if you can or talking the situation down. But when you loved ones or friends are with you unfortunately may have to fight and the only rule can be win!

If anyone can add any ideas please do

if somone breaks into your house for whatever reason, be it burglars or even just some drunk whos found his way in off the street, when they see you they no longer want to be in the house.
if they see you and you are in a defensive mode (for example you are shouting at them or have a stick or something) they really are going to want to get out as fast as they can.

a burglar is not a murderer so i dont think having knives and other potentially lethal weapons is neccesary, as long as you have something thats going to make him think twice about coming in your house.

as for your suggested weapons there are some pretty good ideas there! id be suprised if some bright spark hasnt written a book of improvised weapons yet!

pens are a good one, used like a kubaton gripped in a fist.
anything for that matter thats hard and you can throw at him

good topic btw!

Beedham wrote:
if somone breaks into your house for whatever reason, be it burglars or even just some drunk whos found his way in off the street, when they see you they no longer want to be in the house.
if they see you and you are in a defensive mode (for example you are shouting at them or have a stick or something) they really are going to want to get out as fast as they can.

Lots of people get attacked by the opportunity burglars now. Also there are murderers, rapists, kidnappers etc.

I am of course not suggesting garroting first asking questions later. Just sometimes there are people who may want a bit more than your TV, so I'm thinking of what to use that isn't a weapon to defend yourself.

hI sAMUAL

I think a bit of knowledge goes a long way, I am assuming you are talking in referrence to the UK?

If so the law on self defense is common law i.e. not written down, by parliament. Lets take mugging as that is the fear at the moment. If you were to jump at me an I defend myself. The Police may charge me with assault, and I must prove that I have a defense in law to the charge,that is plead self-defense. I must prove that my reaction was proportionate, or was my first instinct to dismiss the charge of assault.

Proportionate means if you have a gun and I have a knife the law would say that is not a proportionate response unless it was your first response, as a knife is not proportionate to a gun.

So for the martial artist if you are fighting if you break the oppoents arm in the heat of the moment self-defense if you seperate and the opponent walks off and you chase after him/her and break the other arm you have now commited an assault.

It terms of using weapons you must prove that your fear of death was so strong you took pre-emptive action as you realised the threat, and not premediated by having a gun under your pillow, watched the person climb in and then shot them.

From the martials arts point I would say morallity is for before or after the fight never during. But there is still a moral area for the martial artist; can you live with what you do?

For me running is a good option, but also imposing my will without fighting is an art.

I wrote a huge paragraph on self defence law only to find that the previous post pretty much covered it all.

As for improvised weaponry, it is a crucial consideration for any martial artist and one that we should all spend a lot of time considering.

I always try and remove myself from any hostile situation before escalating it further. So always run wen you can. Why wouldn't you? With that said, your attackers can run too, and that's why I think it's equally important to prepare for escape as well as to prepare for confrontation.

Smashing an empty bottle or two in an alley you've just run from works to buy you more time and distance.<br><br>Post edited by: Liu Shui Dao, at: 2008/01/05 20:08

OK...

This is something I was expecting. Firstly law is always going to be in everyones mind about self defense - what you can/can't do etc. I want to skip to the end as it were and say, yes I do fear for my life and the threat is great enough.

This subject is always bouncing off the law and I just want to say in my opinion that I want to survive a life threatening assualt and thats just too bad for the other guy.

Can we just think about what to use to help us and not the law for this thread and maybe have a separate one which is dedicated, because I would like to have this as a pure debate on weapons of self defense.

Oli,
Yeah I would love to run away from every fight. I'm confused by the smashing bottles bit (it is late at night and I am sleepy). As for kubotans, that can be seen as illegal if the police/court decides that it was carried to be used to hurt a person and there for it counts as a concealed weapon. So a pen or maglight is always better. Although people have been given murder charges for stabbing people with pens! But this will also be in the other thread about self defense and law that I'll start on Monday if no one beats me to the punch.

Sam

The broken glass works in the same way dropping caltrops would. It slows whatever is pursuing you and can possibly render them unable to follow. (Slashed feet etc).

And of course we can't run from every confrontation, but you should aways be in the mindset to try that before moving it up a notch. As for kubotans, yes, they are tricky.

Perhaps we should have MartialEdge interview a legal expert who specialises in Self Defence cases in this country?
Just a thought.

Liu Shui Dao wrote:
Perhaps we should have MartialEdge interview a legal expert who specialises in Self Defence cases in this country?
Just a thought.

Second that. And yes I understand the bottles now! No more will I be carrying my batman smoke bombs and zip cables!

I am a bit confused now, is this forum asking what is the best weapon to use if being attacked or is it asking what is the best weapon to use and get away with?

Surely this comes back to what is in your environment, if you are in a club then there are more weapons, one of the scarist fights I ever saw was in mechanics between 8 guys and everyone picked up what was to hand in the workshop.

When looking at weapons what advantage do they give, speed, distance or damage over the oppoent(s)? A kubotan may give speed and damage but an umbrella gives you distance.

The issue of self-defence is one of self preservation regardless of the law.

During the summer we filmed a guy called Paul Smith, who is an incredible martial artist and is also in the rapid arms response unit for the police.

He gives some great insights into what you can do, and to what extremes to go to when god forbid, your confronted.

Common Law

If you have an honestly held belief that you or another are in immediate danger, then you may such force as is reasonable and necessary to avert that danger.

Lord Griffith in applying the use of force to the question of self defence said

‘The Common Law has always recognised as one of these circumstances the right of a person to protect himself from attack and to act in defence of others if necessary to inflict violence on another in doing so. If no more force is used than is reasonable to repel the attack, such force is not unlawful and no crime is committed.

Furthermore, a man about to be attacked, does not have to wait for his assailant to strike the first blow, or fire the first shot; circumstances may justify a pre-emptive strike’

Section 3 Criminal Law Act 1967

A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in
a) the prevention of crime
b) effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders
c) or persons unlawfully at large

The above may help with legal considerations.

The grey area is the word &quot;reasonable&quot;, but it is important. It means there is no carte blanche to unnecessarily injury someone who has attacked you and they are no longer a threat - ie stamping on their head if they end up on the floor.

What is reasonable for one person to do in a given situation may not be for someone else. For example a woman may have to be more brutal in defending themselves against a large man than if the situation was the other way round.

As for carrying weapons for self defence, it can be dodgy ground. If you've got it, at what point do you deploy it or use it? Do you practice deploying it quickly?

Surely if you can hit someone with a kubotan (&quot;I thought it was a large key ring, officer&quot then you can hit them with your mobile or anything to hand or your fist?

I like the hat idea, though it may have a flinch reaction you don't want if you're looking to hit them - ie they raise their hands in front of their face.

Bottom line is that you have to do whatever you have to do to protect yourself. Hence the old saying &quot;better to be judged by twelve than carried by six&quot;

take care
Steve